11 replies to this topic

[OzBoz]

Hi Larry,

I can well understand your spitting chips on this. Like you, I believe any financial institution has a right, an obligation even, to check what might appear to be an unauthorised transaction, but I'm sure that taking unilateral action without contacting the purchaser or advising the seller, would be considered illegal.

Jenolan, on 21 January 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

[name removed] did not give permission to cancel the payment, nor has he reported the item as not received but you decided to cancel the payment!

This is the nitty gritty. On what authority did Paypal take it upon itself to cancel a transaction, and what evidence did they use to decide that the transaction was unauthorised. Sounds to me as if this should be pushed upstairs to the Financial Ombudsman or the Financial Services Aurthority.

A couple of years ago I bought a Dell computer via phone, and gave them my HSBC credit card details. Ten minutes later, a sales person in a panic rang me back and said my credit card purchase had been knocked back by the bank. I rang up my local branch in Mumbai, and was told that the transaction "looked" unauthorised. I'm afraid I lost it then. I asked whether the bank intended to find out if it was unauthorised or just use their own judgement. I told them that they had embarassed me grately with Dell, and that I required them to ring up Dell in Australia, and advise them that HSBC had made a dreadful mistake and that the credit card purchase could now go through. They wanted to argue the toss, but eventually rang Dell and straightened it out, when words like "illegal" "Ombudsman" and "compensation" were dropped into the conversation.

End of rant

[Jenolan]

Yah but PayPal is USA based, think they would be worried by an Oz complaint ... Nah.

Will post the reply I get (if any).

[OzBoz]

Paypal Australia is governed by our financial rules tho.

Cheers

[bl262000]

I can not understand how a financial institution can just assume that a transaction is fraudelent if they have never contacted the purchaser about the supposed purchase. I myself have been contacted by my bank about 2 transactions, one a sizeable amount to a friend and one a regular small transation overseas. I have no concerns with the bank calling me to confirm the transaction, I would rather them do that than just assume all is good or all is wrong.
One of the times was a regular transaction overseas that had been going on for years before the call, but atleast it has now been marked as a normal transation as well as the recipient of the large sum as mentioned above (A trusted friend) but alas I myself has been a victim of CC number miss use but thanks to Dave in the UK, I was able to provide a lot of information to my bank as evidence of the fraud and get my $$$ back withing about 2 weeks (usualy 4-6).
For PP to just refuse a transaction for the sake of it seems ludicrus (especially for the small sum in question) and you could call it harrasement to both the purchasee and seller. If there is no complaint made then where is the complaint to investigate? are PP using this as a money maker to collect the chargeback fees?

cya
Terry

[Jenolan]

I realise that PayPal Australia is required to comply with local regulations but their terms & conditions allow them to do all of this stuff. As it is a condition of use you can't really ask the ombudsman to ream 'em a new ****hole. That the action is unconscionable would be likely something that would be High Court material.

To process credit cards online via the bank is a $70 per month fee plus charges per transaction that's too much for RBR it would be the total raised some months! I am going to try 2CO they process Credit Cards and also PayPal (go figure) problem is that I can use the balance to pay the hosting as 2CO sweep the money into my bank account which means I have to use the MasterCard to pay the hosting (extra fees) then pay the CC from my account yadda yadda

Just to be a total whine the Rodeo died, hitting the bank tomorrow for more money to buy a new truck as we have to have wheels out here.

[bl262000]

Its just another fine example of why many merchants dispise PayPal (and Ebay its parent company now) for transactions. I have purchased and approched some merchants outside of Paypal and ebay (Not for items on fleabay) for purchases as you generally get more respect from the seller if you approach them and are willing to complete a transaction outside of ebay/paypay field. I would always check their feedback on ebay first and maybe buy an item or two, but then contact the seller personally for the next transaction,
There have been too many cases reported on Whirlpool.net.au etc of chargebacks happening to sellers even though the goods have been sent and documentation avaliable to prove such. The more I read, the more I see PP is looking after the purchaser at the sellers expense charging them for clearly fraudgelent chargebacks because they get a cut of the return....clearly not what PP was setup for. Remember it was setup to look after the purchaser from dodgy sellers....not dodgy purchasers from beneifed sellers....Thats what happens when it is bought by one of the most scrupulus companies (ebay) out there.

cya
Terry

[hhdawrs]

Jenolan, on 22 January 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

I realise that PayPal Australia is required to comply with local regulations but their terms & conditions allow them to do all of this stuff. As it is a condition of use you can't really ask the ombudsman to ream 'em a new ****hole. That the action is unconscionable would be likely something that would be High Court material.

To process credit cards online via the bank is a $70 per month fee plus charges per transaction that's too much for RBR it would be the total raised some months! I am going to try 2CO they process Credit Cards and also PayPal (go figure) problem is that I can use the balance to pay the hosting as 2CO sweep the money into my bank account which means I have to use the MasterCard to pay the hosting (extra fees) then pay the CC from my account yadda yadda

Just to be a total whine the Rodeo died, hitting the bank tomorrow for more money to buy a new truck as we have to have wheels out here.

Very long story short:  Shortly after Ebay took over Paypal, I bought software via Paypal/American Express credit card.from a rated ebay US seller.  Before I received the order, ebay sent me an email saying the seller was a fraud. The transaction had not yet cleared Paypal.  I sent a polite query to paypal asking for advice.  When I clicked back a few seconds later, they had paid the fraud,  who was in China.  Right after the time on my email.

A couple phone call to my American Exprees card Challenge group stpped the charge and was followed up by a call from Amex explaining how they handled it.  Great service.  But be a day late on a payment due date ('erbie made me do it) and they really get your attention.  Which is fair IMO; I didn't meet my promise.

Whoopee..just had an earthquake.  A 5+, ~4 seconds., my educated butt sez.

[puffingbilly]

hhdawrs, on 23 January 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

<Snip>
Whoopee..just had an earthquake.  A 5+, ~4 seconds., my educated butt sez.

Herb,

Hope you and your butt survived allright

[nicolaas1]

Banned for life ?

Is that not a little to far. The user who pays with paypal can not help it that paypal makes it own dicissions. You shoul open a complaint with paypal about there behavior not punishing or banning the user who pays with paypal.

[hhdawrs]

puffingbilly, on 23 January 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Herb,

Hope you and your butt survived allright

All is well.  It's all about muscle control.  Never trust a foort whilst quakeing.

[Jenolan]

@nicolaas1 did you read the sequence of events? They were asked by PP to permit a review.

Read the Sales & Refund doc

[hhdawrs]

These types of posts with replies welcomed have signifcant value well beyond RBR.  I hope we coninue them and that they remain easy to back-find if need be.

Thank you.  I'm again paying close attention to paypal.

Herb